By Keith Walsh
With a rhythm section collaboration going back to the 90s, eccentrically innovative guitar voicings, and the fractured blues vocals of front man Albert Hall, Pittsburgh’s Rated Eye breaks the rules to make distinctively unique rock songs. On their self-titled debut album on Wax Donuts Records, the interplay between the jazz informed guitars of Anthony Ambroso, the bass of Dan Tomko and drums by John Roman, combine with social criticism and self aware lyrics by Hall in a mix that’s exhilarating and fun. In our Zoom chat, we discuss their origins, their lyrics and secrets behind their sound. (My review of ‘Rated Eye’ is at PunkRockBeat).
Popular Culture Beat: Hey guys. For a minute there, I thought John was with all these other guys behind him. There’s Sammy Hagar and Diamond Dave. Hey, good morning or good afternoon. Can you hear me?
Rated Eye: Hello!
Popular Culture Beat: First of all, congrats, the album is fun. It’s excellent. It’s everything I love in an album. It’s different, it tries new stuff and it does it and it succeeds . So, let’s get started. I did a little research into Night Vapor and Microwaves and but anyway, I’ll just jump right in. Okay Professor Amos, this guy in Pittsburgh, right? He built this studio — did he charge you for studio time?
Anthony Ambroso: We paid our friend who recorded the record, as an engineer. But there was no studio time fee in that sense. This entrepreneur guy, kind of like Billy Mays, who had a bunch of money and gave it to whoever runs that community center and put a real nice studio in there, and he’s got his cleaning products in the bathroom and stuff. But it’s pretty much no strings attached, he just built a studio in a little outskirt of Pittsburgh with no real connection to the place. It was kind of a cool, cool little spot that not a lot of people know about in this town.
Popular Culture Beat: That’s excellent.
John Roman: I’ve never met the man.
Anthony Ambroso: I haven’t either I’ve just heard the story.
Popular Culture Beat: I want to get with a weird question to just popped into my head.
John Roman: Bring it!
Popular Culture Beat: He said he felt a divine calling to build a studio. And did you think — is there a divine power at work there, in music in general? And making it possible?
Anthony Ambroso: I think so. Yeah. I mean I’m kind of a believer and all the woohoo magical powers that music can have, and I just thought it was a really cool kind of coincidence of events. Even my friend, the engineer who recorded the record, he recorded my solo record too, we met through this really crappy job that we both had. The way you meet people, it’s never how you’d expect to make, the really lasting bonds and friendships that you have with bands and with collaborators. So I think there’s a little bit of destiny element in that personally, I don’t know what the others think. (Drew Bayura recorded and mixed Rated Eye at The Pittsburgh Sound Castle -KW).
Dan Tomko: Absolutely.
Popular Culture Beat: Ok, Dan believes too. Well, I would hate to get into that too deep because we could get too esoteric, when I really want to talk about the lyrics first of all, so they’re absurd, they’re satire in a lot of ways – and whoever writes them the most can speak up I guess. How does it let you get into angles on topics and feelings that wouldn’t work if you just stated them directly, you know, you kind of do them at an odd angle. How does that work for you?
Albert Hall: I’m the sole lyric writer and singer. And they offer help I don’t I don’t accept it. Inspiration comes from feelings, either my upbringing or concepts, you know.
Popular Culture Beat: That’s good. Yeah. It’s powerful stuff.
Albert Hall: And I could hear a turn of phrase, and wonder about that — instead of just putting it into the lyrics, look up like the etymology of where that turn of phrase came from, and kind of like get into that mindset.
“I’m kind of a believer and all the woohoo magical powers that music can have, and I just thought it was a really cool kind of coincidence of events.”
Rated Eye Guitarist Anthony Ambroso
Popular Culture Beat: Let me ask you — this is social criticism in a lot of ways and how does that work? Is social criticism even effective as anything other than catharsis anymore because everything is so entrenched, social structures. So when you make a statement or you criticize, what’s the value to you? Do you think it still has power to change things?
Albert Hall: I think you nailed it as far as catharsis goes. That’s like number one — if it incites any change, that’s excellent. But you know, you don’t hold your breath.
Popular Culture Beat: If catharsis is a primary benefit, just how possible do you believe making positive change with music is possible?
Albert Hall: As for my lyrics, my primary focus is artistic expression. Sometimes I’ll write about things that I maybe wish were different, or that feel bad or unjust, but I don’t see my words causing real change in the world. I believe it is possible, but I’m no Woody Guthrie.
Popular Culture Beat: Okay, cool. So Night Vapor were John and Albert. Albert your voice and John is on the drums there. So you guys have a history going back. I had a chance to listen to some Night Vapor, but the new album by Rated Eye is more playful — the riffs are amazing and that’s down somewhat to Anthony there, I guess, and it’s not the dense wall of sound. It’s more playful. How did that shift happen? Was it Anthony coming aboard or what was it?
John Roman: I think the idea at least on my end was that I wanted to get people in a room and just see what actually happened instead of discussing it before hand.
Popular Culture Beat: How do songs initially take shape – is it with poetry from Albert, or a jam?
Albert Hall: Songs usually originate from a riff from Dan or Anthony, or a sketch of an idea from one of our heads that gets fleshed out after talking through it. The lyrics almost always come later.
(I totally miss John’s point about avoiding discussions. KW)
Popular Culture Beat: So what kind of discussions are you guys having about rhythm and tone and melody — because rhythm is very important almost more than melody for you guys. Like there’s a lot of rhythmic innovation. I love it. So what discussions are you having to with the drums, with Dan on on bass, and you know, obviously the drums and guitar.
Anthony Ambroso: Well, I come from a jazz background and I think that there’s all these kind of like hidden gems rhythmically — like these parts in the patterns that are kind of unorthodox that exist in earlier classic rhythm and blues. Music and jazz in my opinion are like extremely under mined as like a source for rock bands that came in the ensuing decades. So for me that’s one thing I love about this band is that it has kind of this like hard rock and boogie DNA, but when I write parts at least I’m looking to kind of mine some more dense, swinging rhythmic interplay and broken rhythms that you don’t hear a ton in more run-of-the-mill hard rock and punk music that came in the 80s and 90s. I think everything rhythmically got kind of streamlined in those decades.
Popular Culture Beat: Absolutely.
Anthony Ambroso: I’m all about fragmenting stuff. and make you know, making stuff that feels familiar but also feels really like there’s a lot going on rhythmically, there’s layers.
Popular Culture Beat: Well, that’s a complex analysis and you answered what my question was. I’ll get the other guys too. But how did you find that unique approach? I mean, you look like a kid. So were you playing guitar younger?
Anthony Ambroso: Yeah, I went to conservatory. I have a very formal background, I studied classical guitar and jazz, and I’m a drummer as well. So I have a very formal background and I’m a huge fan of jazz music so that to me that’s where a lot of the rhythm stuff comes from.
Popular Culture Beat: Albert — your voice. Okay, so everyone will make the Captain Beefheart comparison. I imagine when you heard his voice…can you remember what you thought ? Was it ‘oh, I I’m kind of like that, I want to be like that?’ What other singers inspire you? It’s in the blues tradition. It’s gritty, you know, it’s visceral.
Albert Hall: Right. Yeah, having listened to Howling Wolf and things, and then you come into that and you’re like, oh, this is just like a thing that you can do and not just a schtick. The funny part about the Beefheart thing was that Night Vapor came together with me being in the band as propositioning John if he wanted to do a Beefheart cover band for a Halloween set or something. That didn’t come to pass. But he was like ‘well if you want to sing, do you want to be in this band?’ And so I took it there, and I kind of found my own voice going through that. Night Vapor was more guttural and now going into Rated Eye, I’m kind of trying to get a little more melody in there and hopefully start singing proper soon.
Popular Culture Beat: It’s how long have you guys been working together? John and Albert?
Albert Hall: Was that 2013 Night Vapor started? Yeah, I think it was early 2013.
John Roman: Something like that.
Popular Culture Beat: Okay, cool. It’s been a long time. So there’s rhythmic innovation, that’s apparent. That’s a big part of the sound. You got some interesting things going on. So who of you are the first to wrap the song concepts into a beat structure? John, I imagine you and you and Anthony and Dan all get together.
John Roman: To wrap it into a concept?
Popular Culture Beat: So Albert has the lyrics and vocal style. Who’s the one that like comes up with the like the movement, you know that changes the structures. What’s your role? In other words, John?
John Roman: I try to have as little plan as possible. With this band, I really just want to see what happens with almost a sort of musical arguing,
Popular Culture Beat: Back and forth.
John Roman: Before it starts to take shape.
Popular Culture Beat: Okay. I mean they’re intricate arrangements, it’s mind-boggling to me how you guys can memorize so many. Is there a lot of improvisation as you’re recording the album, or is it all dedicated and down?
John Roman: Depends on who you talk to in the band, really. I guess everybody has a different level of that.
“The funny part about the Beefheart thing was that Night Vapor came together with me being in the band as propositioning John if he wanted to do a Beefheart cover band for a Halloween set or something.”
Albert C. Hall Of Rated Eye
Popular Culture Beat: Okay, Dan. Sorry to leave you over here. You’re kind of quiet. These songs do not present with ordinary chord changes at all. Like Anthony doesn’t always stick on a tonal center, not does Albert really. So how do you find the tonal center? You know, is it more deliberate and studied or is it more intuitive? What are you doing there with the bass?
Dan Tomko: It’s definitely more intuitive and we always try to find a counterpoint. So what Anthony is doing, wherever possible, I try to make things more lopsided?
Popular Culture Beat: I mean I have to listen again and pay attention just to the bass. The first couple times I was just excited by all the kind of drama in the music. What does you what’s your pedalboard to look like? Dan, do you have a pedal board, and are using are using a tube amp or using a digital amp?
Dan Tomko: I’m using a solid state.
Popular Culture Beat: Ok, yeah. You’re not that fussy about it.
Dan Tomko: No.
Popular Culture Beat: What bass are you using?
Dan Tomko: It’s the American Standard Jazz Deluxe.
Popular Culture Beat: Fender. I love the Fenders, everyone’s got a Fender.
Dan Tomko: Pretty much anybody uses anymore. I mean, it’s either Fender or Gibson.
Popular Culture Beat: Okay. How about you Anthony? What about your guitar setup?
Anthony Ambroso: Yeah. My setup is pretty simple. I’m not like a huge pedal guy in general. I enjoy playing around with effects, and there’s a little more of that on my solo material, but in this band I keep it real stripped down. So I just have a tube amp and I’m running a Gibson guitar into it. I’ve got a boost pedal. I’ve got like a little slap delay and that’s about it.
Popular Culture Beat: Oh, yeah, I noticed that it has to be a tube amp. Your guitar sound is always on the edge of that. It’s like that sweet break up but it’s not shifting in tone. It’s kind of like always broken up and it’s awesome. So what’s the tube amp?
Anthony Ambroso: It’s a little company called Frenzel. Actually. I have the head here because we have a gig tomorrow. It’s right here. It’s kind of weird and boxy looking but it’s kind of modeled on like a 60s Marshall Plexi.
Popular Culture Beat: All right, Albert. I guess I’ll go back to what’s your favorite Captain Beefheart album?
Albert Hall: Sophie’s Choice. Got to be Doc At The Radar Station.
Popular Culture Beat: I know I’ve heard that. I’m more familiar with Trout Mask. I guess everybody knows Trout Mask Replica.
Albert Hall: Yeah. It’s like “Hothead,” “Ashtray Heart,” ‘Dirty Blue Jeans.” It’s just a real ripper. With Beefheart, there’s so many different eras and what have you — it’s just kind of like what you’re feeling at the time because yeah, there are some days when I really just want to listen to Trout Mask Replica. Or Lick My Decals Off, you know to get that frenzied feel.
Popular Culture Beat: How does it feel live –anybody — in terms of pulling off what you do on the record? Because there’s so much demanding stuff going on. Can you do a long set, because the tunes are so demanding energy-wise.
John Roman: We don’t have that many songs.
Popular Culture Beat: Are you doing any Night Vapor stuff or is this strictly Rated Eye?
John Roman: It’s all Rated Eye. If we had more material we’d find out if we could do a longer set or not. But until then we just don’t know..
Anthony Ambroso: I think we’re at a point to as a band where we’re starting to get way more comfortable with more open improvisation. That’s something that I really push for in recent months. Now that we have this first record, for the second record we’re writing material and we want to distinguish it and I’m a huge fan of like Hendrix and bunch of jazz music where they really stretch — there’s like extended improvising. So I think that’s something that we’re working toward to is just like how to how to incorporate that into this band.
Dan Tomko: This band is basically like a scholarship for John and I to join Anthony’s conservatory.
Popular Culture Beat: Wow. Yeah. Well, okay since you set that up –Anthony, what’s your solo project called?
Anthony Ambroso: It’s called Mercy Killer and I released it last year in October. I played all the instruments on it, and did all the production and that was kind of like a fun thing for me. Actually. I was really inspired by working with this crew, and I wanted to apply a lot of their really deep sort of love and knowledge of 80s, underground post-punk kind of stuff and like heavier stuff to what I already knew. I think that’s kind of the result of the resulted in that record. Okay?
Popular Culture Beat: Hey Dan, I’m going to take a guess here. You have a jazz background, on the bass.
Dan Tomko: Oh, absolutely not.
Popular Culture Beat: Blues?
Dan Tomko: Not even blues. No wave. Post punk. That kind of stuff. John and I were in a noise rock band in the mid to late 90s.
“This band is basically like a scholarship for John and I to join Anthony’s conservatory.”
Dan Tomko Of Rated Eye
Popular Culture Beat: What is that No Wave come connection? That’s New York, right?
Dan Tomko: I mean, whatever what was going on with Skin Graft like when there was like that No Wave Resurgence in the late 90s. It was like Lake Of Dracula and stuff like that.
Popular Culture Beat: What was your band called?
Dan Tomko: The 1985.
Popular Culture Beat: What distinguishes No Wave, because I’m not that familiar with that that concept?
Albert Hall: Angular guitars.
Dan Tomko: Yeah angular guitars, screaming vocals.
Albert Hall: Disco drum beats.
John Roman: Beating on trash cans.
Popular Culture Beat: There’s a history of fracturing stuff, like taking elements and borrowing, and it’s like a collage almost. It’s pretty exciting. I’ll go back to this –you guys you broke out of the cliches and that’s part of borrowing stuff. Okay, so here we go to Anthony again. What advice can you give to any guitarist about avoiding the same old riffs, cliches, and patterns?
Anthony Ambroso: So, I take a ton of inspiration from drummers, in particular jazz drummers like Tony Williams.
Popular Culture Beat: And this guy named John Roman?
Anthony Ambroso: Yeah, John too, I mean John John’s jazzy in his own way, but I read this interview with Tony Williams where he sums it up, about creativity and finding your own voice. Tony Williams said: ‘I don’t even think about finding my own voice — I just play like I play like the people that I admire, but I because I’m me it comes out unique.” And I think that’s how I approach writing. I know that I’m not going to be some carbon copy because that’s just not me. I’m gonna take what I love and I’m going to do it as if they were me. I don’t know. It’s a weird. It’s just a cool quote that I think about a lot.
Popular Culture Beat: It makes sense. Okay. So, how about you Albert? Doing a show, are you able to maintain that voice? I mean without hurting your throat?
Albert Hall: Yeah, doing seven years of Night Vapor, which was like way more guttural, got my my callouses all the way down my esophagus, so it’s not so hard.
Popular Culture Beat: Are you guys all from Pittsburgh — always like forever?
John Roman: I am.
(Dan Tomko raises his hand.)
Albert Hall: Yes.
Anthony Ambroso: I think we all grew up kind of nearby. You know, I think we’re all from the Pittsburgh region. If not, like the city proper, you know, we’re familiar with Western PA culture and you know all the places, you know, we have that background in common.
Popular Culture Beat: What’s the scene like out there? I mean the live music.
Albert Hall: My knee-jerk reaction was to say bleak, but it’s not bleak.
John Roman: It’s not bleak.
Albert Hall: There’s a lot of cool shit.
Popular Culture Beat: Where are your live shows taking you, and since you guys all look pretty young still, are you cautious or do you explore or adventure when you’re on the road? How conservative are you, say at night after a show?
John Roman: I like to sleep.
Popular Culture Beat: Yeah. That’s a good one. It saves you money when you’re sleeping instead of…
John Roman: Yeah, it does.
Albert Hall: I like to hang out. I might say I like to party.
Popular Culture Beat: Oh wow.
Anthony Ambroso: Classic frontman. Yeah.
Popular Culture Beat: What areas on you covering playing live?
John Roman: Right now, we’re trying to get together a bunch of what you call long weekends. It can run anywhere from a Thursday to Sunday, to like Friday to Saturday.
Popular Culture Beat: Do you guys have a van?
John Roman: Yeah.
Popular Culture Beat: Yeah. Okay. So, oh I can ask you this. The intro to “Economy Boro,” Is that or is that not a nod to Rush?
Anthony Ambroso: There was one person who compared us to Rush, and after the fact, I guess like maybe subconsciously I think the thing I was thinking of, that I did in the early days of the band, Dan and John would come up with these kind of like really pounding sort of punk or these really pounding Jesus Lizard sort of grooves and they talked about making things lopsided. So that was my way of coming to something they wrote and making it lopsided, because I was playing this figure that was kind of like it implying a polyrhythm because it was in a different meter, against their really straight kind of caveman thing. So I think that’s kind of a theme in the band, is if I’m playing something really straight, John and Dan will do something really weird and if they’re playing something really straight and boneheaded, I’ll be the weird one. There’s kind of like a role reversal that happens.
Albert Hall: I was gonna say that too, as the as the one person who doesn’t really have any musical input watching them write the things — I think that’s the easiest way to avoid making, say, boring music, is to — if Anthony is playing a rock beat or a rock riff, just do something different, make something match up but just subvert expectations.
Popular Culture Beat: Yeah, that’s a good strategy. In fact, that’s that’s kind of the way you have to do to be different. I mean it develops the longer you play. You break out of patterns, you try new stuff. So John, what does your drum set look like — how many pieces?
John Roman: Four drums, two toms, a kick and a snare.
Popular Culture Beat: With such a basic kit, maybe Ringo is an hero?
John Roman: Sorry to disappoint, but Ringo isn’t really an inspiration. I’d look more towards Alan Myers (RIP) of Devo.
“I think that’s the easiest way to avoid making, say, boring music, is to — if Anthony is playing a rock beat or a rock riff, just do something different, make something match up but just subvert expectations.”
Albert C. Hall Of Rated Eye
Popular Culture Beat: When did you start doing math rock or so-called math rock, with the tempos and oddness?
John Roman: When did I start that? I don’t know, when I started playing drums, really.
Popular Culture Beat: When you were a kid?
John Roman: You could sort of say that.
Popular Culture Beat: “Mia Demon 2” almost has a pop metal riff as the song develops. Can you say anything about the commerciality of the riff, or the catchiness?
Anthony Ambroso: That was a riff that Dan wrote. Dan and John came up the main parts they, kind of wrote together. And then that was when they were still auditioning guitarists. That was like the template. They had my friend Brian, they auditioned him too. And he’s the reason why I’m in the band. He referred me, and I think Brian actually would have been, on paper, a much more logical choice for this band, because he’s really into like Skin Graft Records, and bands like U.S. Maple and you know, I think there’s actually some where, there’s like phone recordings of him jamming on that same groove.
Popular Culture Beat: Well, he can fill in for you.
John Tomko: Funny thing about that one is, that was actually a Night Vapor’s song, and I want to say ninety percent of the drumming was pretty much just like it was in the Night Vapor’s song. So that one started with drums and then bass, and then guitar and then vocals were built on top of that.
Popular Culture Beat: You and Dan have a good rhythmic connection. Who do you listen to more, when you’re playing, who drives your beat? Who are you connected to more?
John Roman: It flip-flops back and forth. I mean, there’s not any real like one place where it’s grounded.
Popular Culture Beat: Dan, how do you find the pocket? Are you listening to the kick drum or?
Dan Tomko: Yeah the kick drum, you know trying to watch John, and watching Anthony’s fingers, you know.
Popular Culture Beat: I need stories about the name. Rated Eye. It’s a play on words. Obviously. I mean, there you go breaking expectations again, even with the name. So, who made the name?
Anthony Ambroso: That’s John.
“Sorry to disappoint, but Ringo isn’t really an inspiration. I’d look more towards Alan Myers (RIP) of Devo.”
John Roman Of Rated Eye
Popular Culture Beat: Tell me what it means. Could you enlighten us about ‘Rated Eye?’
John Roman: What it means — what does it mean to you?
Popular Culture Beat: So it summons up images of the panopticon, like we’re always being watched and also it’s like ‘Rated Eye,’ it’s a new category of entertainment where it’s not Rated X, It’s Rated Eye, which means it’s worthy of watching. I don’t know.
John Roman: That’s the definition that I like most,
Popular Culture Beat: Where are you guys headed next sound-wise — are you working on a new album? And are you going to do at the studio of a Professor Amos again, or what? Are you planning?
Anthony Ambroso: Yeah, I mean we’ve actually got a lot of exciting raw material that we’re kind of molding. We’ve got a couple new songs already. We”re playing this house show tomorrow where we might try to workshop some new stuff. We’ll see.
Popular Culture Beat: How long does it take, because your songs are so complex? It’s not just throwing together a few chords. How long does it take in terms of like days or weeks to bring a song to like completion and it’s yeah who wants to answer that?
John Roman: Hmm. It depends on the song.
Anthony Ambroso: Yeah, it really varies. I mean some come together super quick, some take forever. Like there’s this one song that we have, that we have not recorded yet and it’s going to be on album number two, but actually we’ve been working on it forever. Like it’s been a song of ours for like at least a year and a half. I would say if not longer.
Popular Culture Beat: Wow.
Anthony Ambroso: Because it’s gone through so many transformations. We even did record it –we recorded in the studio, but we left it on the cutting room floor because we want we wanted to change a bunch of stuff about it.
Popular Culture Beat: Sometimes you’re never satisfied until you actually work on it for a long time. What’s that one called? Just out of curiosity.
Anthony Ambroso: That one’s called “Like Grass.”
Popular Culture Beat: You guys, by the way. I skipped shaving for a couple days because you guys all have facial hair, so I could kind of hang out with you guys a little bit. You probably can’t see it though.
John Roman: I can’t see it.
Popular Culture Beat: Damn it.
Albert Hall: Stick with it. You’ll get there.
Popular Culture Beat: All right. Thanks. Hey guys. This has been fantastic –congrats on the album. I appreciate your time.
Albert Hall: Keith, it was nice to meet you.
Dan Tomko: Yeah, thanks Keith.
Popular Culture Beat: Yeah, the interview will go on Popular Culture Beat and the review that I’m doing of the album will go on Punk Rock Beat. I’ll tell you guys, you’re on Facebook and I’ll get all the links and stuff and then and then I’ll see you soon, maybe when there’s more videos.
Albert Hall: Where are you located?
Popular Culture Beat: Southern California.
Albert Hall: Okay, we’ll get there.
Popular Culture Beat: Oh, yeah, I’ll come out. I’ll bring my camera. All right, excellent. Good evening guys. Have a good one.
Rated Eye: Thank you.
Popular Culture Beat: Take it easy.
Rated Eye On Bandcamp
Rated Eye On Instagram
Rated Eye On Facebook
Wax Donut Records On Instagram
Night Vapor On Bandcamp
The 1985 On Bandcamp
Mercy Killer On Bandcamp
Review Of ‘Rated Eye’ at PunkRockBeat.com
RATED EYE UPCOMING SHOWS
6/20 Pittsburgh PA / Squirrel Hill Sports Bar w/Crop, Gloom Doom
7/18 Detroit TBA w/ Bronson Arm, Lake Lake
7/19 Youngstown OH / Westside Bowl w/ Lake Lake
7/20 Pittsburgh PA / Govt Center w/ Lake Lake, Triceratops
7/21 Cleveland OH / No Class w/ Lake Lake
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